KPMG RESETTLEMENT FEASIBILITY STUDY POST-REPORT CONSULTATION MEETING
Public Meeting
19:00-21:00, 12/01/2015
Broadfield Community Centre, Crawley

Speakers/Organisers:
Nathan Hill, KPMG London
John Burton, KPMG London
Andrew Price, KPMG environmental consultant
Malcolm Summerfield, KPMG economic consultant

Interpreter: 
Rajesh Narula

Audience members:
Approximately 60 Chagossians, including:
Sabrina Jean, UK Chagos Refugees Group
Bernard Nourrice, UK Chagos Refugees Group 
Joseph Bertrand, British Chagossian Community Crawley
Frankie Bontemps, Chagos Islands Welfare Group
Allen Vincatassin, The Provisional Government of Diego Garcia and Chagos Islands

Other participants:
Philippa Gregory, UK Chagos Support Association
Rudy Pothin, ZSL Connect Chagos
Rebecca Rotter, University of Edinburgh

Transcript of proceedings
[First 5 minutes of meeting (introduction) missing]

Nathan Hill: we visited BIOT in May, we’ve explored and seen 14 of the islands in BIOT and we’ve also had many consultation visits in Mauritius, Seychelles, Manchester, London and Crawley. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And the draft report came out in November which many of you might have seen. The consultation process then lasted for a month, closed on 22nd of December, and the final report, which we’re working on now, will be published at the end of this month.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And it’s important to distinguish now what the report does include and what the report doesn’t include 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So the report sets out three resettlement options, um, a broad range of options, and it sets out the financial costs of these options if they were to occur.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We have a wide range of analysis involved in this report. We have a legal and political assessment, we have an environmental analysis, an infrastructure analysis, er economic analysis, er livelihood options etcetera, er and we have a consultation process, which we have you to talk to, the Chagossian community members, but also other stakeholders such as environmentalists and lawyers etcetera.

Rajesh Narula [To Nathan Hill]: Sorry, um, the last bit was...

Nathan Hill: Consultation process

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And what the report doesn’t include is: we are not making the recommendations to UK government as to whether resettlement should occur. What we are doing is setting out three options, costing them, and presenting these options to the government. It is the government’s decision at the end of the day as to whether resettlement will go ahead. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: I understand that this issue is very important to the community and it’s the issue of citizenship and nationality. Um, inevitably this question will come up again, er but we are not allowed to and we do not go into depth, in depth discussion of the issue of nationality. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We do realise that this is a really very, very important issue for you so what we have done in the report is flag this up, showing that the government that it is a very important issue and an issue that will have to be resolved if resettlement was to go ahead.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: As I said, providing the costs to the government of each of these resettlement options. But what we do not do is give a judgement as to whether these costs are affordable to the government. It’s up to the government to decide whether they want to spend this much money on resettlement.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So we don’t say ‘oh this is cheap and very good value for money’, but we also do not say ‘this is too expensive’. It’s up to them to decide.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: At the end of this month when the report is published, KPMG’s involvement and this team’s involvement finishes and so any negotiations after the 30th of January that the government might have with the community or with the Americans, um, we have nothing in the report about what those negotiations might look like and what it would involve.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Okay, this next slide shows the islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Diego Garcia on the left is obviously one of the resettlement option islands.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: And on the right hand side the outer atolls and islands including Peros Banhos and 
Salomon, both of which contain possible islands for resettlement 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: This slide is important for two reasons. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Firstly as you will know the islands are very remote, being in the middle of the Indian Ocean 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: which of course raises the cost of transporting materials to the islands.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: The other point is that the islands owe their origin to the coral reefs

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Coral produces sand and the sand produces islands

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: without the coral reefs Chagos would not exist

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: So the health of the corals is an extremely important consideration

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: both for the continued existence of the islands and for resettlement prospects.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: The coral reefs of Chagos are probably in better condition, as good or better condition than anywhere else in the Indian Ocean.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: In 2010 there were created as a Marine Protected Area.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: However, it was never the British government’s intention that this should be an obstacle to resettlement.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Okay.

Nathan Hill: Okay, er so just a very brief explanation of the consultation process that we’ve gone through. So in June and July, er, we met with the Chagossian community in Manchester, Mauritius, Seychelles, London, Crawley.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol. Audience members ask if something can be done about the feedback noise which is coming from Rajesh Narula’s microphone]

Nathan Hill [To Rajesh Narula]: Do you need the microphone?

Rajesh Narula: I don’t know. Can everybody hear me?

Nathan Hill: Maybe try this microphone instead

[Audience member adjusts microphone for Rajesh Narula, which solves the problem]

Rajesh Narula: Ah, thank you

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er so these consultation meetings took two broad forms: er one form was a large meeting like this. I think in Crawley last time there was probably double the amount of people than there is here.  

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So it was a very good turnout. Um, and also there was one-on-one meetings the next day where people could come in to er, to meet us one-on-one and in confidence, er, tell us what their views are on resettlement.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We learned lots of things in this consultation process. These are just the main, er, points that we, er, learned on this process.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So there’s an overwhelming desire for the resettlement process to be a permanent process and that temporary visits would not be an acceptable solution.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Now in the meetings in June and July. 

[Audience member requests for the previous statement to be explained again]

Rajesh Narula [to Nathan Hill]: You said they want the resettlement process to be...

Nathan Hill: When we asked ‘do you want to return permanently to the islands?’

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Most people said ‘yes, permanent’

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: But when asked ‘would temporary visits be acceptable solution to you?’

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: people said ‘no it wouldn’t be, we want a permanent resettlement’

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: um, and in the meetings in June and July, er when asked about what sort of standard of living people would expect if they were to return to BIOT, er it seemed that most people said that they wanted a standard of living similar to the average UK citizen

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: er, but talking to the community in the last week it seems that might not be as clear cut and perhaps some people would actually be happy with a much more basic, er, standard of living

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er and what also came out from these meetings as well was that a strong preference for Diego Garcia to be amongst the options for resettlement

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er, it became very evident to us that the community as a whole were very, er, environmentally conscious

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And the community were very keen in playing an active role in maintaining the pristine environment of, of BIOT

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and when people were asked about what sort of employment they currently have and what sort of employment they can, er, do if there were to be resettlement, there seemed to be quite a wide range of skills

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: er from plumbers to electricians to barristers to administrative people

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: which would be useful if resettlement were to happen, and useful for the sustainability of employment prospects on BIOT.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And actually the main livelihoods that were suggested by people the most often were fishing, coconuts and tourism. And we tried to reflect that in the report by, um, focusing in depth detail on the analysis of these three livelihood options. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Nathan Hill]: Coconuts?

Nathan Hill: Coconuts, tourism and fishing

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Okay so one of the chapters is a legal chapter which, um, sets out the government’s, um, all the sort of legal aspects that they would need to consider if resettlement was to go ahead

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er, the highlight or conclusions of this chapter is that there are no legal obstacles to resettlement. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So it says that there are no legal obstacles to resettlement, er but then sets out the important legal aspects that the government would have to change and consider.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So things such as the constitutional framework and immigration obviously would have to change. Of course immigration would have to change because at the moment no one is allowed to resettle, so there are these legal things that would have to change if resettlement was to happen.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Nathan Hill]: Er constitutional framework?

Nathan Hill: constitutional framework and immigration.

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And again, the issue of nationality is very, very important and in this chapter it’s flagged to government that if resettlement was to go ahead the issue of citizenship needs to be looked at and needs to be changed. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er, issues of governance we’ve looked at, er a governor might replace the current commissioner, er and a civil service system would need to be set up so that, you know, there’s doctors, there’s firemen, there’s administrative officials.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Initially a consultative body made up of Chagossians would need to be established so that, er, whoever resettles back there would have their views taken on board in all governance of the territory. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: And it also goes into issues of revenue, expenditure, er, you know, how is government revenue going to be collected, um, from, er, BIOT, and what sorts of things, what sort of public amenities would it be spent on.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Okay, the environmental analysis, er, included two main aspects. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Firstly the impact of the environment on resettlement

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: in particular sea level rise which of course is very important as the islands are very low-lying

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and the other aspect we examined was the reverse: that is the, er, impact or the likely impact of resettlement on the environment.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: One big issue is whether upward coral growth can keep pace with sea level rise

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Andrew Price]: Er did you say sea level rises?

Andrew Price: Yes, whether coral growth can keep pace, keep...

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Recent studies suggest that corals may grow, coral reefs may grow between, er, about half a, um, half a millimetre to nearly 8 millimetres a year

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: average maybe 3.5

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But these measurements have not yet been done on Chagos, they’re from other parts of the world.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But there are plans for research to look at this. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: On the other side of the equation, sea level rise is predicted to rise from between 6, about 6 and a half to 7 and a half millimetres per year over the coming century

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Andrew Price]: Six and?

Andrew Price: 6 and a half to 7 and a half millimetres a year 

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Those are projections but sea level rise is also measured at Diego Garcia with a tidal gauge 

[Andrew Price looks at Rajesh Narula, expecting him to struggle with ‘tidal gauge’. Short discussion between them about which term to use in Kreol]

Rajesh Narula: Um, I’ve forgotten what you’ve said now

Andrew Price: Sea level rise is also being, actual measurements are also made as well as projections

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: And the estimated rise is 5 to 6 millimetres per year, some people think maybe only 3 millimetres per year.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: One problem in all the oceans is that they are becoming more acidic which makes the coral less healthy

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and in most, or in many parts of the Indian Ocean coral reefs, um, are badly affected by problems such as sewerage and sedimentation

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Andrew Price]: And, sorry?

Andrew Price: And by um, sediment, sand and silt

[Rajesh Narula continues to translate into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Importantly, the islands of BIOT, both Diego and the outer atolls, are in very good condition

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: And it is obviously important that they stay in good condition

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Okay, the, this, this next slide shows some of the expected, um, disturbances from reef settlement on the environment. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: On the right hand panel, that shows the disturbances that might be expected on Diego Garcia

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Um there would be some impacts from construction and from sewerage

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But importantly Diego Garcia, as you know, already has an airport and a port

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and assuming they could be used, there would not be need for additional disturbance by constructing these

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Very importantly also, the big Marine Protected Area does not um, include Diego Garcia

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Diego Garcia does have some protection under, um, international legislation

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But I repeat it’s, it’s not part of the big Marine Protected Area

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: We should also mention that there is a recreational fishery currently in Diego Garcia 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: So for example people from the military facility, er, go fishing

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and recent research shows that this has had, er, an adverse effect on the fish population

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But that is, that is not to say that if um, a Chagossian population would return, fishing on Diego Garcia would be um, prohibitive 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: for example it may be appropriate to change the fishery to one that is harvested by Chagossians instead of um, military personnel

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: but with perhaps quotas set that might be slightly lower than they are at present, in order to ensure the sustainability of these stocks

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: but from an environmental and economic perspective, Diego would be um, the most suitable option

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and the important point about the outer islands, which is the left hand panel on this slide

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: is that they would probably need an airport and/or a port

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and both of these are extremely environmentally damaging

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and as we’ve seen the, the outer islands are in this Marine Protected Area

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: that is not to say that resettlement should definitely not occur in these islands

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and if resettlement did occur it would be probably logical to zone the Marine Protected Area, to divide it into zones.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: such that resettlement and fishing could take place in some areas but in many areas, not. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: There is a, one other important point that we should note

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: on the one hand self-sufficiency is, is a good thing because it means less dependency economically etcetera on the outside world

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: but we should remember that in Diego Garcia nearly all the food and other resources are brought in from outside

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: so if resources are brought in from outside, this lowers the environmental footprint on an island such as in the Chagos

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Okay, um, considering now livelihood options. Um, this is building on, on what Nathan, um, said already. So one option would be employment on the military facility on Diego Garcia 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and certainly when we were there in May, the US um, said that it would be, it would be possible for Chagossian employment and I think it still is potentially. It still is at the present time potentially 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Fisheries. Again we’ve mentioned fisheries is one option for livelihoods. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: but it’s also important to note that, er, fish, er, removal of fish, removal of coral fish not only removes um, individuals from the stock

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: but also fish are responsible for keeping coral in health condition

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and if you take certain fish from the fisheries then the coral becomes dominated by algae, by weed, instead of by coral

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Tourism is obviously a livelihood option in a view of the spectacular coral reefs

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and in fact there is a potential way that um, that tourism um could have very minimal impact on the environment

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and that would be to have accommodation on ships or small boats

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: And of course that would avoid having construction and houses, an airport and a port on the outer islands

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: But while that might be acceptable or desirable to tourists

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: we understand that it would not be a resettlement option for Chagossians. Resettlement, um, is understood to mean, you know actually resettling on the land rather than on, rather than on a boat

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: um I think coconut industry was another option and that was examined

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: Can I just add from an economic point of view, there are a number of issues

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: In relation to the military, the American military installation

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: The employment there is controlled by a company, a separate company that’s contracted from the US government

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: which is called G4S

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: now in relation to what we were told on the island was that there is no barrier for anyone of the Chagossian, Chagossians applying to work with G4S on the, you know, on the main facilities

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: What I should also add in relation to what Andrew has said, in relation to the estimates that we have presented in the report, it also gives the opportunities for training and the costing of training

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and in relation to, that also applies to fisheries for example. We have also costed in relation to the requirements for fishing vessels, fishing equipment, and also training if people are not aware of fishing characteristics, and also looking after the environment in relation to fishing.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: in relation to tourism we have also, with the er, with the help of consultation with other companies 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: we have also costed the potential investment, this will be a private sector investment, in relation to an upmarket tourist development

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and the employment opportunities that that would generate for Chagossians

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so what, what, what we have done, we have two types of tourism development. One is an upmarket tourism development

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and the second would be what we call ecotourism

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: where we have suggested that that type of development might be more appropriate in relation to being very close to the Chagossian resettlement community

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: because in relation to my experience on remote islands like Pitcairn, Tristan da Cunha, St Helena etcetera, the tourists who come...

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: Tristan da Cunha in the south Atlantic

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: er St Helena in the Atlantic

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: tourists who are doing ecotourism type things like to interact with the local community

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the other one that’s not mentioned here which I should mention, is employment in the operation of the community itself and the facilities 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so the islands that I’ve mentioned like Pitcairn, Tristan da Cunha, St Helena

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: in each of those islands the community is employed by the administration, by the government, to actually run the facilities

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so one of the things we have also, um, suggested in the report

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: is those, those Chagossians who wish to go back and if it is agreed there will be a resettlement process

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: we are suggesting that there would need to be a study that identifies people’s exact skills, experience, aptitudes etcetera

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so there could be an actual focused training programme that could train people in relation to the requirements as they would exist on the island

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: er we have also mentioned in, environmental monitoring which would be an important aspect which we appreciate that the Chagossian community are aware of the importance of environment, safe environmental management

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so there may be opportunities there in relation to assisting in environmental expeditions

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and also assisting in the monitoring and envir, monitoring and evaluation that will take place after the, after the resettlement takes place

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol. Asks Malcom Summerfield to repeat himself]

Malcolm Summerfield: Evaluation

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so in relation to all these aspects that I’ve mentioned, we have quantified in relation to the

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: we have quantified in relation to the three options

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: what the labour force would be

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and also in relation to each of these, each of these livelihood options or employment activities, how many people might be employed for each category

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: yeah I’ll have a go at this one, in relation...what we were also required under our Terms Of Reference is to indicate what the costs might be, both in terms of the capital costs and the operating costs

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: now you will appreciate that in relation to the fact that the Chagos islands are isolated, that the actual construction costs are going to be...medium to very high

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so in relation to actually establishing the indicative costs, it was quite a challenge from our point of view

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: now in relation to the infrastructure requirements

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: we have gone through all of the requirements from housing, schools, clinics, administration buildings, shops

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol. Man in audience receives phone call. Rajesh Narula requests that Malcolm Summerfield pause until there is silence, so that he can concentrate]

Malcolm Summerfield: So in relation to one of the main challenges for us was establishing what we felt were reasonable cost estimates

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and also in that respect, in relation to some of the bigger items, like the airport and the harbours

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: we had comparative information in relation to what it was costing in other isolated islands

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so the, the actual costing included, er, items like roads

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: energy

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]
Malcolm Summerfield: housing

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: water

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: waste water

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: solid waste

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: administrative buildings

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and so on. Now in relation to the capital costs of infrastructure

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: just to give you an indicator, obviously the details are in the report

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: option 3

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: which is a, option 3 is 150 people

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the approximate cost would be about 155 million pounds

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: for option 1, which is 1,500 people

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the, the cost would be about 371 million pounds

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula [To Malcolm Summerfield]: What did you say it was?

Malcolm Summerfield: 371

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: Now one of the major components in that number which is obviously very high

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: would be the airport

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: which is estimated to be 125 million pounds

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so you can appreciate in relation to these investment requirements

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: that the costs per person are going, the investment costs per person are going to be very high

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so for example for the cost per person excluding the airport and the, er, the port

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: would be 125 thousand pounds per head

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: and for option 3, which is 1,500

[Nathan Hill corrects Malcolm Summerfield, saying that option 3 is 150 people. There is discussion between the KPMG team members about which option is which. John Burton points out that option 3 is more costly per head than option 1. Rajesh Narula confirms that he has understood] 

Malcolm Summerfield: Oh sorry, yes, I got the options round the wrong way. Option 3 is 420 thousand. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: So you can see that, er, the investment costs for the resettlement programme is likely to be very expensive

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so one of the things we have suggested in the report in relation to the fact that the two items that are going to be most expensive

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: are the airport and the port

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: now in relation, if there’s any potential resettlement for example on Diego Garcia

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: then it would be for the UK government to discuss with the Americans

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the potential joint use of their airfield and their port facilities

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So, Malcolm’s already gone through this but I think there’s a point to be made that, on the right hand column you have these large capital expenditures here which you might think ‘well these are already in Diego Garcia’

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: so if they already exist in Diego Garcia, why are we costing them in this option?

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: the Americans have said that we can assume that, er, it would be possible to use the airport and the port

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: so that’s not one hundred per cent definite but

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: it’s possible

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: but do not assume that you’ll be allowed access to any of these facilities in the right hand side column

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: so therefore in our options, in our costings, we have to assume that these facilities would have to be built from scratch and they would cost money

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: I’ll just go over these slides quickly. These are just pictures of some of the outer islands and as you can see, the jetty in the right hand corner, er, is not functional at all, um, so it just shows that

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: it shows that the infrastructure on the islands that once existed is now completely gone and that things will have to be built from scratch

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: the other pictures also show that it’s actually quite difficult to access the islands first and foremost, but also the centre of the islands

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: er so a lot of work would need to be done to make these islands habitable

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and again, all the infrastructure on the islands is now, er, in disrepair, has not been used, so the infrastructure would have to be, er, developed from scratch

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and the bottom two pictures show the er, the living quarters of the UK-US army, as they currently stand

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Okay. Um, next steps and a summary of what we found out. We found that there are no physical, er, barriers to resettlement

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So the physical barriers that the previous feasibility study set out we didn’t find in our study

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: In light of that we developed three resettlement options

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and um, set out some indicative costs of what these three resettlement options would cost.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We do not recommend that any of these options should or should not be taken.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: It is now up to the government to read the report, study the options and then decide themselves a) do they want resettlement to happen, and b) what sort of option would they go for if it were to happen.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: er, next steps. There aren’t many next steps because the final report is out at the end of this month. Um

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We’re working at the moment on (inaudible) all the comments that we received in the consultation process

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: to finalise the report so that it’s ready for publication at the end of this month.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: We will also be developing a standalone, separate consultation document

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: which highlights what we’ve done to consult with not just the Chagossian community but wider stakeholders

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and to highlight key messages and comments from this consultation process.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: It’s just trying to make sure in the public realm that the consultation process is (inaudible) as transparent as possible and we’ve taken on board, er, as many comments as we could from each stakeholder.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So we have about 40-45 minutes now to, for us to receive any questions or comments you might have. Er, it is out, the final report, at the end of this month so this will be your final chance to give your views.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So please, any comments and questions. 
Audience member 1 (Jacques) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: If the government accepts the project, can any individual or other government contest or oppose our resettlement? Thank you.

John Burton: Shall we take two or three? 

Nathan Hill: Yes, two or three at a time. Any other?

Audience member 2 (Sabrina Jean): Okay, I have some question. Did US government accept the resettlement on Diego? What about the destruction by wastewater in the lagoon? And management, who will take care of what to do for the pensioners? And what about benefit while this be ongoing, what to do for training?

[Joseph Bertrand asks Sabrina Jean to address the panel in Kreol and use the interpreter. Sabrina Jean responds that the interpreter will translate into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Can we just take those two because I think that’s four questions. 

Rajesh Narula [To Nathan Hill]: Sorry, did you get them?

Nathan Hill [To Rajesh Narula]: I did, yeah. So there was has UK or US government accepted potential resettlement of Diego Garcia, what about the waste water that they pump out, er, what about sort of pension provision for retirees, and was it about training? What was that sorry?

Sabrina Jean: What would benefit, what will be the ongoing to do for training?

Nathan Hill: So yeah, what provision for training will be ongoing?

Sabrina Jean: Yeah

Rajesh Narula: So first thing: has the US accepted it? The second thing is the effect of waste water on the lagoon - because I need to interpret it back into Kreol

Nathan Hill: Yeah sorry, yeah, yeah sorry

Rajesh Narula: The third thing was pensions, and the fourth thing was?

Nathan Hill: Ongoing provision of training

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: I can take your first question. The other three I think I might need to palm off to...I will get your questions afterwards. So has the government accepted resettlement?

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: They’ve accepted, er, our feasibility study and that we can do this feasibility study

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: but they’ve not specifically said that they are happy or dishappy, unhappy sorry, happy or unhappy for resettlement to occur on Diego Garcia

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Of course the UK government will have to have quite intense discussions with the Americans

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: about the use of Diego Garcia if resettlement was to go ahead

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So sorry, I don’t actually have an answer

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: I think it’s just worth mentioning that the agreement with the US finishes in 2016

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: so there will be some negotiations for the coming 20 years after that

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: Yeah so my point is that there’s an opportunity for negotiation

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: In terms of waste water and pensions

Andrew Price: Er waste water in, waste water and many environmental features are already monitored in Diego Garcia

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Some samples are analysed in Diego Garcia, the others are sent overseas for analysis

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: So in relation to pensions

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the pension will depend on several factors. One will be

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: the age profile of those Chagossians who do return.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: It is standard practice in the other islands that I’ve mentioned for pensions to be paid.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: There will also be, I assume, the opportunity for those who return with UK pensions that their UK pensions will be paid to them in the Chagos islands.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Sabrina Jean [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: The um, the retirees are already in receipt of their pensions, however, we should like your report to make that more explicit and more solid and not be on the basis of ‘we suppose that’

Malcolm Summerfield: Yes, we can do that. Yes, because it’s, it’s we, it is standard practice that

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: that pensioners, er, who have paid into the pension scheme in the UK, who live in other countries, their pensions are paid to them where they live

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Audience member 3 (Stephan Bertrand): It’s common sense

Rajesh Narula: It’s a question of common sense

Malcolm Summerfield: Well it’s also, for the British government it’s a legal requirement

Audience member 4 (Allen Vincatassin): The issue we have with this is that this doesn’t follow, this doesn’t follow the pension credit [Repeats in Kreol]. Your pension will follow you if you are getting state pension but not pension credit [Repeats in Kreol]. The government is stopping it. The thing is, the majority of our old people, they are on pension credit, not on state pension so this is why it’s an issue, because [Repeats in Kreol] so I think it needs to be highlighted in your report [Repeats in Kreol].

John Burton: We’ll note that. I mean ultimately this will be an issue for the UK Department of Work and Pensions.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: And we haven’t looked at pensions in, in any great detail in this report

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: but the further consultation report should highlight your concerns on this.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Sorry, there was a question from that gentleman over there, said, was it right, that if the government was to go ahead and agree to resettlement, your question was would there be any other governments or individuals that could stop them?

Rajesh Narula: The first question, yes, yes. That was it.

John Burton: Could, could you say a little bit more about who you think might, might be involved?

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Jacques [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: We already have the Mauritian government which opposes Diego Garcia as being a British territory. It opposes that fact. Is it possible that the Mauritian authorities, the Mauritian government, may oppose our resettlement?

Nathan Hill: It’s possible that they can oppose resettlement but this 

Rajesh Narula: Sorry?

Nathan Hill: It’s possible that they can oppose resettlement but this is a British territory so if the UK government desires this to go ahead then it will go ahead

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: We did inform the Mauritian government about the study 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: and we invited them to comment

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: They haven’t raised an objection yet to this report.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: I mean many of the Chagossian community are living on Mauritius so

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: So if anything they would probably support that because it would strengthen the links between Mauritius and the territory

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: There’s a gentleman there, do you have a question?

Audience member 4 (Jerome Simon) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: Yes. When you established your costs for 150 people or 1,500 people, you set a fairly fixed cost. Do you cost it in the same way for 150 fully trained, fully functioning professional people to be resettled, as you would cost it for 150 people, for example, who would require training from the ground up for resettlement? Your costings don’t appear to have any minimum or maximum value, they seem to be fairly fixed and rigid.

Malcolm Summerfield: Yes well in terms, in terms of the, these are only preliminary costs, they’re not finalised

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: So what would happen, if the, if the British government agrees to go ahead and supports resettlement of the Chagossians

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: then there would be, what would be commissioned would be detailed site investigations, design investigations, and then final costings.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: So in our report, we strongly state that these are only indicative costs

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: so if it goes to the next stage 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: that study would also have to, would, would be prepared in terms of detailed costings.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Malcolm Summerfield: And what we mean by detailed costings would be, they would detail it in terms of what a contractor would actually, er, charge, his bid would actually charge, to do the sea transport, the machinery and equipment, all the materials and supplies, the personnel etcetera

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Audience member 5 (Philippa Gregory): This is a question about costs also, which is there is some concern in the community about the price that you’ve put, having set, when you first came to the community to talk to them, a very high standard of living which Chagossians should expect on their return. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: When you first came to Crawley for instance

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: you spoke in terms of a British standard of living.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: If that makes the cost of return so high that the British government cannot accept return

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: then there are a number of people among the community who would like to discuss the quality of life on Chagos 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: for instance, roads, street lighting, um, traffic

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol. Struggles with the word for ‘street lighting’]

Philippa Gregory: It really doesn’t matter. 

Rajesh Narula: Sorry, pardon [Recalls the word, continues to translate]

Philippa Gregory: Some very highly polluting aspects of resettlement

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: are not even wanted by some people

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: and while I accept that you don’t want to do a detailed costings at this stage

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: and while you haven’t consulted the community on this detail

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Philippa Gregory: nobody wants you to put such a cost in that the government refuses

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula: Apologies about the street lights

John Burton: Well the, the point is well made and well taken.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: It’s not really accurate to say that the design is a British standard. It’s, it’s kind of looking at having a modern standard

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: which would be adapted to the circumstances

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: and the big cost will be things like major infrastructure rather than street lights.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: But the previous consultation exercise did indicate the desire for, you know this modern lifestyle and that’s what was reflected in the report.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: However, we anticipate that both the British government and the community will wish to look at the costs in detail and see where savings could be made if they have to be made. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Audience member 6 (Fabrice Moussa) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: What I haven’t seen in any sort of plan, what I haven’t seen is photographs [Rajesh Narula asks Fabrice Moussa to slow down as he is concerned that he has missed something, says ‘Right, start again’] What I haven’t seen is any plans, I haven’t seen any photographs of what houses may be like. How can you establish a cost of living when you don’t have a plan?

Nathan Hill: I suppose, I suppose this, it’s about our Terms Of Reference and what the study is meant to be, er, achieving.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Er this is a feasibility study which tries to decide whether it is feasible for resettlement to occur first and foremost: is it, can it occur?

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Of course we’ve said it can occur, er, and we’ve given some resettlement options

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and these resettlement options do go into more detail in the answers

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: but it would be a lot of effort and a lot of time and a lot of resources to go into doing a very, very detailed plan and blueprint of a specific resettlement option

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So the next stage would be if the government said that resettlement should occur, then they need to work with another organisation on something and do another study as to, you know, we want the options that look like this, do a detailed blueprint and plan, with photos and (inaudible)

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: but having such a detailed plan was never part of the study

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: Just to add to that, if every aspect of the study was done in great detail

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: it would have taken very much longer than 9 months

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Andrew Price: and required more resources.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: The government wants to make a decision before the end of parliament so they will (inaudible)

Audience member 7 (Joseph Bertrand) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: In the last report that came out in June or July there was a form, there was a questionnaire that was part of that report, that was addressed to be filled out by any Chagossian who wanted to go and resettle on the islands. We haven’t seen it in this latest report. Could you clarify the matter for us please?

Nathan Hill: We’ll take two or three questions at a time. I’ll come back to that.

Audience member 8 (Frankie Bontemps) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: Concerning the cost of living, if for example today, 2015, there is resettlement on Chagos, we would want our cost of living to be the same as here. It’s not a question of street lights and streets, it’s a question of the fact that the British government was responsible for the deportation 40 years ago of the islanders, the Chagossians, and therefore it is a matter more of the British government assuming its responsibilities. That’s it.

Nathan Hill: I’ll take a few and then you...

Audience member 9 (Mr Cotte) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: If the government accepts and it chooses from amongst the options that are presented to it - I wasn’t here for the beginning of the meeting - does the report cover immigration? We, there is one problem that affects all of us Chagossians here: not all Chagossians have married other Chagossians. They have married locally in the countries to which the government sent them, for example they have married locally in Mauritius and in the Seychelles, to people who do not have British nationality. And so when we came to Britain there was a visa problem. If – my question is this – if the government should accept that we be resettled in Diego Garcia, will the government employ the same immigration rules that exist here in England, as my friend has just said? If Chagossians have married non-Chagossians, it is as a result of a decision taken by the British government. They are not the people who decided – who wanted – to go to Mauritius or the Seychelles. It would be good for you to include this in your report, that we should consider that state of affairs because Chagossians are returning to their birth islands so their spouses, their partners, and the children, should also have the facility to accompany them in resettlement. Why I’m raising the point is because the last time there was a meeting here I did raise the point of immigration but I don’t see anything in that regard here today. 

Nathan Hill: I’ll get back to you on that. 

Audience member 10 (Jane Baptiste) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: When you submit your, when you present your report on the 31st of January, how much time will the government take to decide to give, to give an answer? How much time will the government take to give an answer? In the event of an election, should the government change, will that cause a problem? [Rajesh Narula corrects himself] Sorry, may that cause a problem?

Nathan Hill:  Er, okay, first the questionnaire question. Yeah, you’re right, there was a questionnaire, er, handed out in the initial consultation. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill:  And I think there was a miscommunication as to why the (inaudible) the questionnaire to be given to 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill:  and what we were going to do with the responses to the questionnaire.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill:  I think because of this miscommunication on our part, er, no one filled in the questionnaire

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill:  er, so we don’t have that in-depth data that the questionnaire would have given

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: and that’s why it’s not in the report in that much depth

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Joseph Bertrand [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: How do you know how many people want to go back?

Nathan Hill: Oh well everyone said they wanted to go back. It was quite...

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol. A couple of audience members make comments (inaudible)]

Nathan Hill: You know, we don’t know what the total number of the population of Chagossians are in the various communities but it was very evident that everyone wanted to go back.

Rajesh Narula: Sorry Nathan, you don’t know... 

Nathan Hill: We don’t know the whole population of Chagossians in all communities but it was very evident that, with the people that we spoke to, that everyone wanted to go back.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Unknown male audience member: Not everyone.

Nathan Hill: Maybe it wasn’t (inaudible) 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: You’re right, it’s, it’s very hard to really put a figure on the amount of people that actually want to go back. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Was that another point of clarification?

Allen Vincatassin: Yeah, I think, er, a point of clarification is required [Repeats in Kreol] that’s why it is important for us to be very careful [Repeats in Kreol] because somebody last time at the first meeting [Repeats in Kreol] who is not part of our community [Repeats in Kreol] said ‘we will not fill this form’ [Repeats in Kreol] and didn’t, they walked out [Repeats in Kreol] and somebody I think er Richard was here [Repeats in Kreol] that’s not what we are saying, that’s what this person is saying. And the same here, same thing here today [Repeats in Kreol] Right? We ask you to give us a UK standard, that is a good standard of living [Repeats in Kreol]

Sabrina Jean: Yes

Allen Vincatassin: We have suggestion that this is not good and that we didn’t ask for it [Repeats in Kreol]. No.

Sabrina Jean: No

Allen Vincatassin: We, we agree with what you portrayed in your report one hundred per cent and we thank you for that [Repeats in Kreol] and, and it’s a very good also of you to have quoted the salary in pounds sterling [Repeats in Kreol] so that’s very good. We, we, we really thank you for doing that and mentioning that and we will defend KPMG because it was us who said it’s need to be a UK standard. Thank you.

Nathan Hill: Um, we have 5 minutes to go so I’m going to try and rattle through a few questions

Sabrina Jean [Simultaneously]: I have one question, yeah?

Nathan Hill: There’s three other questions but I will get to you

Sabrina Jean: Yes

Nathan Hill: Okay, so immigration, you touch on immigration. As I think I said before, we are not allowed to discuss in great detail issues of citizenship in the report. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: As frustrating as this is, this is a UK government policy decision and it’s nothing to do with us.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Mr Cotte: Resettlement meaning you’re sending people to the place and every country is governed by immigration regulations so it’s really (inaudible) 

Nathan Hill: We’re not allowed in our Terms of Reference, we’re not allowed to talk about citizenship [Mr Cotte continues to speak, recommending the issue to be mentioned in the report] I know it’s an important issue for the community but we, we, we are not allowed to talk about it in depth

Andrew Price: It’s outside our Terms of Reference.

Nathan Hill: The government has said to us we’re not, not in our study.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

John Burton: We have reported the issue in the report and (inaudible)

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: I need to move on to the question about the sort of timeframe for the government decision. We don’t know first and foremost but there is a general election coming up and there is a period before the general election called purdah which is

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So there are elections in May, general elections, and there will be a 6-week period before the elections where the government will be out of business, um, not out of business, um, not working. So there will need to be a decision made if a decision is going to be made, er, April, before April really. So in the next few months.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: It’s very difficult to say, if there is a change in government, er, whether they would or would not change any sort of decision made by current government.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: But this is, these are political decisions which we, we just don’t know, we’re not privy to these. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Rajesh Narula: Anymore?

Nathan Hill: Er, er are out of time. Er, we’ve only got this (room) til 9 o’clock.

Rajesh Narula: Small question

Audience member 11 (Unidentified young man) [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula translates into English]: Small question. Concerning the development on Diego Garcia. I understand that we have the right to go there. In the 10 years or so that people have been here it’s the first time I’ve heard that G4S is running things on the island. As you can see at this meeting, it’s three quarters fairly young people. This is the first time, in all these 10 years people have been told ‘you can’t go back to Diego Garcia, you can’t go there, you can’t this, you can’t that, you can’t the other’. Why has it taken so long for the identity of G4S to be revealed? It’s new for us. Why has it been concealed? It’s new for us.

Nathan Hill: I don’t know is the answer. I mean I think, I think, I think the Mauritian community understood that G4S were running things.

Rajesh Narula [To Nathan Hill]: Did you say Mauritian community?

Nathan Hill: Yeah, people in the Mauritian community understood that G4S were running the service, services on the compound.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Sabrina Jean: Yes

Multiple audience members: Yes, yes

Joseph Bertrand [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula quietly translates into English for the panel]: Those who are concerned know about G4S, those who are not concerned about it don’t know. We had many meetings about it in the past and no young people came. 

Sabrina Jean: Voila

Nathan Hill: My point was going to be that there um, what they were saying is that ok, they know that there is potential employment with G4S but the salary that they paid was so low that 

Multiple audience members: Yes

Nathan Hill: they wouldn’t want to do it anyway, so.

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: So sorry um, thanks very much for attending everyone. We’ve run out of time. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Nathan Hill: Any other questions, come up to me after this or I’ll give you my contact details and er 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

Joseph Bertrand [in Kreol; Rajesh Narula quietly translates into English]: When KPMG presents the report at the end of January, what follow-up and monitoring will there be?

Nathan Hill: Like I said before, after the end of the month, after the submission of the report, KPMG will be finished with the process. Thank you. 

[Rajesh Narula translates into Kreol]

[Meeting closes]

-END OF TRANSCRIPT-